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Re: Russia and Turkey Register Green OA Self-Archiving

I still remain puzzled. I have consulted with the publisher for a
leading not-for-profit mathematical society. The reply I received
is as follows:

"Yes - at least OUP, CUP and Springer provide this. I am not sure
about the AMS journals but given there are something like 500
'respectable' pure maths journals cited on MathSciNet, there's
bound to be a lot of variation"

My question to this publisher was to ask if many journal
publishers in mathematics had some sort of "online early"
arrangement. Such an arrangements means that subscription-based
journals should have papers online in the final version as early
as is the case with OA journals operating an author-paid or some
other financial model that does not rely upon subscriptions.

Dr. Karasozen - are you saying that it is not acceptable to cite
the online definitive version of the published paper by its
digital object identifier and that you cannot cite it until it
appears in print with issue and pages? If that is the case surely
this will make it impossible for you to cite OA e-only journals.
Most OA journals are e-only. This is a question for you and your
community but I would be interested to learn if insistence on
using print conventions is widespread across the academic


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bulent Karasozen" <bulent@metu.edu.tr>
To: <liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Russia and Turkey Register Green OA Self-Archiving

> In Mathematics it really takes a long time until a paper
> published in a journal. Therefore the scientific communication
> works concerning new results works with preprints. We usually
> put a citation in the reference for the unpublished work. If it
> is published we change this reference by giving the journal
> issue.
> But the most interesing in the Internet area is when an article
> is accepted and available as "articles in print" or something
> like that, one has to wait until it appears in a journal issue.
> This will also take in Mathematics a long time. I think not
> only in Mathematics, in neihgbouring disciplines like
> Operational Research too. The article waits until it is
> assigned to a volume and issue. I think these are habits from
> print publishing. When we have end of print, this should also
> disaaper. But when I look that many journals still offers
> printed reprints of the publishes articles to the authors, I am
> sceptical about it.
> Therefore we need open access for rapid, wide communication and
> getting sooner citation of the published resuts.
> Bulent Karasozen
>> As I see it Dr. Karasozen is complaining about the long time
>> between the acceptance of the paper and the publication date.
>> Surveys have shown that where there is academic enthusiasm for
>> OA the backlog in many journals is a key reason.
>> Yet the majority of major journals that follow the subscription
>> model make the accepted paper (usually in its definitive
>> version after copyediting etc) immediately available on the web
>> with a DOI for citation. Of course these papers are only
>> available to subscribers. OA journals and those financed by
>> subscriptions follow much the same route up to the point of
>> putting final versions on the web except of course that for
>> many OA journals payment has presumably to be made by the
>> author (is that the case?) before the paper is released.
>> In addition a very large number of journals now use web-based
>> online editorial system such as Manuscript Central to speed up
>> both the submission process and the refereeing process. I
>> appreciate that there is no reason why an electronic process
>> should speed up refereeing but empirical evidence from any
>> major problem will show that it does. Some how the refereeing
>> gets prioritised by the scholars doing it. I assume that OA
>> publishers also have these systems (do they?) and it has the
>> same result for them.
>> OA advocates rightly complain about the myths used as arguments
>> against them but this complaint (for major journals in most
>> fields at any rate) invokes a myth when applied now to journals
>> financed by subscriptions. I am aware that mathematics is
>> different in many ways. For example refereeing does take
>> longer. However mathematical publishers may be able to confirm
>> or otherwise that these generalisations apply to them as they
>> apply to fields with which I am now more familiar
>> Anthony
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "JOHANNES VELTEROP" <velteropvonleyden@btinternet.com>
>> To: <liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: Russia and Turkey Register Green OA Self-Archiving
>> mandates
>>> In scholarly, peer-reviewed journal publishing, embargoes and
>>> copyright restrictions have only one function: to ensure that
>>> journals can be sustained financially by selling
>>> subscriptions. Take embargoes and copyright restrictions away,
>>> and journals cannot be reliably and sufficiently sustained,
>>> because subscriptions are likely to vanish.
>>> If one wants to get away from embargoes and copyright
>>> restrictions there are basically two scenarios:
>>> 1) Disregard formal peer-reviewed journals and publish informally
>>> on the web.
>>> 2) Find a way to sustain formal peer-reviewed journals in a less
>>> roundabout way than subscriptions, by means that do not require
>>> embargoes or copyright restrictions.
>>> The possibility of scenario 2 is increasingly being offered now
>>> (albeit not yet by all publishers or journals): sustaining
>>> journals via a per-article charges for the service of formal,
>>> peer-reviewed publication, also known as 'open access
>>> publishing'.
>>> Jan Velterop
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Bulent Karasozen <bulent@metu.edu.tr>
>>> To: liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 9 May, 2007 4:32:41 PM
>>> Subject: RE: Russia and Turkey Register Green OA Self-Archiving
>>> Mandates in  ROARMAP
>>> I don't see any reason for embargos for posting accepted
>>> articles on institutional repositories. The best way would be
>>> to put the the peer reviewed version of the article immedialy
>>> in the institutioanal repository. In disciplines like
>>> mathematics the reviewing process takes about one year.
>>> Publication of the accepted paper takes one to two years.
>>> Within the time the articles loose their value if they are not
>>> available for the scientific community.
>>> In the E-thesis repository of Middle East Technical
>>> University, Ankara we have introduced the one year embargo for
>>> some thesis due to patent applications. But we don't need it
>>> for accepted articles and we will have no embargo rule for the
>>> articles.
>>> Bulent Karasozen
>>> Middle East Technical University
>>> Department of Mathematics & Institute of Applied Mathematics
>>> 06531 Ankara-Turkey