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ASTM replies re: click-through agreement

This response received from ASTM should be of interest to all
institutional subscribers.  Note his position that their agreement is
"fair and reasonable, and widely acceptable by our subscribers". What
better case can be made for carefully reviewing these agreements before
accepting them!

I hope that anyone who is currently providing online access, or who may be
waiting for the outcome of my exchange with them, will take a hard look at
their terms and contact him directly so Mr. Zajdel can get a more informed
assessment of their appeal within the institutional marketplace.

I don't have time to go round and round with people who apparently regard
a lone protest as a tempest in a teapot!  Here's one time when multiple
voices speaking as one can do some good.

David L. (Dave) Fisher                                  
Electronic Resources Coordinator   
Univ of California, San Diego Libraries   
(858) 822-1004

>>> "Zajdel, George" <gzajdel@astm.org> 06/25/04 11:56AM >>>
Dear Dave:

ASTM International has a big stake in protecting copyright and IP. The
click-through license agreement we employ is relatively simple, fair and
reasonable, and widely acceptable by our subscribers.  While I can
appreciate your concerns, it would not be in the best interest of ASTM to
modify or - to any degree - nullify our license agreement, as you propose.
Kind regards,

George Zajdel
Manager, Sales
Phone: 610-832-9614
E-mail: gzajdel@astm.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Fisher [mailto:Dave@library.ucsd.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 8:35 PM
To: Franco, Derek; Zajdel, George
Subject: Re: FW: ASTM online journal terms and conditions questions


We currently subscribe to Journal of Forensic Sciences, and Journal of
Testing and Evaluation.

Would it be possible for us to sign the attached license agreement with
ASTM which acknowledges the click through agreement, but which takes
precedence over those terms in the event of a conflict between the terms
in the license and those in the click-through agreement? This is a
standard license agreement used by the University of California for
licensing digital products. A similar license is used for licensing
System-wide resources. I'd be happy to work with you on it if there are
any areas ASTM would like to see modified.  Acceptance of this license
would simplify your dealings with other UC campuses and would facilitate
multi-campus licensing if UC and ASTM should ever move in that direction.

My specific objections to the terms in ASTM's click through agreement are:

1) there is no provsion for addressing and rectifying breaches of the

2) we cannot consent to third parties examining our hardware looking for
breaches and then assessing penalties where any are found, assessing us
for the cost of this procedure

3) we cannot accept governing law or legal venues outside the State of

4) because the multiple locations within the city of San Diego are under a
single administrative entity, the University of California, San Diego, we
define ourselves as a single unit.

I'll be happy to discuss any of this with you.

Best regards,
David L. (Dave) Fisher                                  
Electronic Resources Coordinator   
Univ of California, San Diego Libraries   
(858) 822-1004

>>> "Franco, Derek" <dfranco@astm.org> 06/24/04 02:00PM >>>
Hi George
Dave had some questions about IP licensing and networking that I was not
able to answer.
Dave has a specific idea on how to proceed.
Anyway you can make contact with him in the next couple of days regarding
his needs?
You can reach George Zajdel at 610 832 9614
Thanks for your interest. 
Derek Franco 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Fisher [mailto:Dave@library.ucsd.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 6:56 PM
To: Franco, Derek
Subject: ASTM online journal terms and conditions questions
Dear Derek,
To whom should I address my concerns with the terms and conditions of use
posted at the ASTM online journals website?  Several of them are so
onerous that we are unable to provide access to them through our online
Thanks in advance for your time.
Best regards,
David L. (Dave) Fisher