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(Fwd) Re: A question of licences and Alumni members

Hi John et al,

Good to see the down-unders opening cans of worms as well ... (happy now,

John - your statement begs the question somewhat about whether higher ed
institutions/universities/whatever we-that-sector-call-ourselves-nowadays
are going to buy the argument that we are players in the lifelong learning
game, with all it's myriad implications.

In a way tho' it's a problem we already face - e.g. people who already
wear both student and (say) business / corporate hats. How much can we do
about which hat they are wearing when they access licenced resources?  It
is very difficult to legislate or otherwise sanction appropriate attitudes
or behaviours in individual users of licensed resources.

I, too, am most concerned (purely selfishly) that we don't get bogged down
in the labyrinthine and potentially litigious bureaucratic processes of
licence land - the process of endlessly reading and negotiating licences
often makes me feel quite ill (we certainly appreciate the Model licence
movement propelled by your good selves John and Anne).


Richard d'Avigdor
Hybrarian (Datasets Coordinator)
Electronic Information Resources Group (EIRG)
Library, The University of New South Wales
Tel: +61 2 9385 1531  Fax: +61 2 9662 6309

------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	"John Cox" <John.E.Cox@btinternet.com>
To:             	<liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu>
Subject:        	Re: A question of licences and Alumni members
Date sent:      	Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:42:31 EDT
Send reply to:  	liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu


I have a more general comment.  Where is this pressing demand for alumnus
access coming from?  In my experience and that of my friends, we all move
on quickly from an important three or four year experience to the rest of
our lives.  My fellow alumni do get together for reunions etc, but these
are mainly social.  University was a milestone in our lives, but only
that.  Of those who have gone into academic life, they will use the
libraries available to them at their present universities.  The rest of us
move into other modes of life.  Is this demand merely a "nice to do"
thought by librarians?  Show publishers the real demand, and we will

But it sounds like tilting at windmills!

John Cox

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Okerson <ann.okerson@yale.edu>
To: liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu <liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu>
Date: 16 July 2000 19:38
Subject: Re: A question of licences and Alumni members

>John and others:  I understand the traditional arguments against including
>alumni in licenses.  And I have two real-life questions:
>1.  Under what conditions would electronic information providers include
>alumni access to a given information resources?  Under a different license
>altogether? Under the same license but more money? With certain
>2.  What if one's alumni association creates short continuing education
>courses for those same alumni, at their request (they want to keep in
>touch with former professors and learn from them, etc.).
>Assume here that the courses are offered for free or at price that aims
>to recover costs (not make money), and the individuals in the courses
>can be identified and access given to enrollees only, with the rest of
>alumni excluded.
>Would such a scenario be acceptable?  Would it require a whole separate
>license negotiation (which, for, say, a 4 or 6-week course with a limited
>enrollment of, say, 50 or fewer wouldn't likely be cost effective)? Would
>inclusion of such alumni be acceptable under fairly common license
>language that permits faculty, staff, and student access wherever they may
>be located?  I would appreciate a discussion of such limited
>alumni-as-student coverage and its relationship to all-alumni-all-the-time
>kinds of licenses.
>Thank you, Ann Okerson
>Yale University Library