RE: Correction (RE: Thatcher vs. Harnad)

["Sally Morris \(Morris Associates\)" <sally@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk>]

Open Access journals that don't charge authors (and some that do) 
are being paid for somewhere else.  It may be explicit, as with 
the Moore Foundation sponsorship for PLoS or that of Ishikawa for 
Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine.  Or it may 
be implicit, where the editor's parent organization is covering 
the costs of time (salaries and associated costs), office 
accommodation and services, and computing resources.  Some 
naively (in my view) argue that these costs do not exist since 
the people, office and computer were there anyway - but what 
about opportunity cost?  They could all be doing other things.

I don't think anyone has compared the fortunes and reputation of 
those OA journals that do and don't charge authors.  It would be 
interesting to see whether there is, in fact, any difference...


Sally Morris
Consultant, Morris Associates (Publishing Consultancy)
Email:  sally@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu] On Behalf Of David Prosser
Sent: 10 July 2007 02:52
To: liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu
Subject: RE: Correction (RE: Thatcher vs. Harnad)

Anthony

I really don't want to flog this, but I've mentioned it twice now
and you've ignored it twice.  There are significant numbers of
open access journals that make no charges to authors.  You can
find them in the DOAJ.  In fact, the figure is about 50% of all
journals listed in DOAJ impose no charges to publish (whether the
author is poor or as rich as Bill Gates).

The world is not as black and white as you try to paint it -
there are subscription-based journals (including some from
commercial publishers) that require author payments and there are
open access journals that don't.  The environment I strive for is
open access - there will be a variety of business models.
Authors will continue to be able to choose between those open
access journals that charge nothing and those that do charge.
Just as they currently choose between those subscription journals
that charge nothing and those that do charge.

David C Prosser PhD
Director
SPARC Europe
E-mail:  david.prosser@bodley.ox.ac.uk
http://www.sparceurope.org

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu
[mailto:owner-liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony
Watkinson
Sent: 07 July 2007 01:41
To: liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu Subject:
Re: Correction (RE: Thatcher vs. Harnad)

David

I am glad I gave you an opportunity. It gives me the opportunity
to say how glad I am that these journals have moved away from
these charges. I have just done a survey of charges of all
journals with impact factors in a particular discipline and have
found that none of the commercial publishers charge colour or
page charges or submission charges or excess page charges. Some
of the learned societies self-publishing do. However there is
clearly plenty of choic for the authors. In the environment you
strive to realise there will be no choice at all unless you can
plead poverty. You will have to pay to publish or get someone
else to pay.

Anthony

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Prosser" <david.prosser@bodley.ox.ac.uk>
To: <liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 8:11 PM
Subject: RE: Correction (RE: Thatcher vs. Harnad)

> Actually, Anthony, I wouldn't have made that point as it would
> have placed me on a very sticky wicket!  When I worked at OUP
> Nucleic Acids Research did make colour figure charges and The
> EMBO Journal (which was then published by OUP) had a per page
> charge for 'excess' pages - to give just two examples. (Of
> course, Nucleic Acids Research is now an open access journal.)
>
> My point was to show that the 'open access journals erect new
> financial barriers to authors' argument is too simplistic.
> Significant numbers of closed access journals require author
> payments and significant numbers of open access journals
> require no such charges.
>
> Best wishes
>
> David C Prosser PhD
> Director
> SPARC Europe
> E-mail:  david.prosser@bodley.ox.ac.uk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu
> [mailto:owner-liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Watkinson
> Sent: 03 July 2007 05:59
> To: liblicense-l@lists.yale.edu
> Subject: Re: Correction (RE: Thatcher vs. Harnad)
>
> Dear David
>
> As we have discussed in another arena, I am sure that you have,
> when you worked at OUP and Elsevier, made the point that your
> journals did not have colour charges probably and certainly not
> page charges. If you did not use this point in promotion you were
> missing a trick - which is not like you. As you know very few
> commercial journals have page charges.
>
> Anthony